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Monday Night Open Thread

I'm watching Dancing With the Stars. I like Kelly Osborne and Louie the snowboarder, and who knows why, Donnie Osmond. Len took his happy pills tonight, he's liked every dance.

A commercial came on a few minutes ago warning seniors that the health care bill would cut $100 billion in benefits from Medicare Advantage and, according to the Congressional Budget Office, many seniors would see 50% cuts in "extra benefits." Then it said "Colorado is hit hard." All the while, the faces of seniors flashed across the screen. At the end: "Paid for by America's Health Insurance Plans." Who are they?

What's on your agenda tonight? This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    AHIP is the trade group for (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by scribe on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 09:13:20 PM EST
    the health insurance companies.

    They do not like the idea of a public option by any stretch of the imagination and, to all appearances, had a good-sized hand in creating and coordinating the tea-baggers (and particularly their messaging) who went nuts during the town halls in August.

    The baggers were big on having senior citizens come out screeching about socialized medicine being the end of the world as we know it, all the while they were the beneficiaries of ... socialized medicine called Medicare.

    AHIP also was one of the participants in the backroom dealings between the WH and the health insurance industry stakeholders (except, of course, the consumers) which went on this spring and coughed up the hairball that is the Baucus bill.

    If you want more (probably too much detail), about who AHIP is and what they do, ask Jane over at FDL.

    AHIP (America's Health Insurance Plans), (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by caseyOR on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 09:18:19 PM EST
    is the insurance industry's trade group/lobbying arm. Insurance companies stand to lose some money if the Medicare Advantage reimbursement is changed. As things stand now, Medicare pays 18% more for someone on a Medicare Advantage plan than it does for someone on regular Medicare. All that extra money goes to insurance companies, not individual providers.

    Medicare Advantage got started because insurance companies claimed they could provide health care to seniors at a cheaper cost than regular Medicare. It was supposed to save money, which it obviously does not. IMO, Medicare Advantage should be eliminated all together. Instead, Obama wants to create what sounds like a bid process with the rates being tied to the lower bids.

    Obama coming to NYC tomorrow (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by nycstray on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 10:07:45 PM EST
    to meet with the counter terror division (or whatever they're called)and thank them for the recent terror arrests. Wouldn't a phone call work just fine? Hopefully he has other pressing business in the city . . .

    Money... (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by desertswine on Tue Oct 20, 2009 at 09:57:02 AM EST
    Obama will be in NYC tonight for a lavish Democratic Party fund-raising dinner with about 200 big donors.

    Parent
    He needs to start "attending" (none / 0) (#42)
    by Inspector Gadget on Tue Oct 20, 2009 at 10:12:20 AM EST
    these things via internet conferencing.

    The tax payers foot the bill for his travel to each and every one of these events. He has much more important things to do right now.

    I certainly hope that 2010 proves to be the beginning of a new trend....votes are earned through good legislation for the people.

    Parent

    Ahhh... (none / 0) (#44)
    by kdog on Tue Oct 20, 2009 at 10:18:39 AM EST
    a meeting with the economic terror division.

    Parent
    lol!~ (none / 0) (#69)
    by nycstray on Tue Oct 20, 2009 at 01:55:01 PM EST
    You would think I would have guessed the obvious there . . .


    Parent
    The fact remain that (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 11:31:22 PM EST
    if you take $500 million or so out of an underfunded Medicare program sooner or later cuts will happen and services will be rationed. It just has to. And yes, "ethics" will be the watch word while the needle is slipped into Grandma's vein.

    For a look at the results of what happens when rationing happens, see what FL is proposing.

    Link

    Fox News going ballist ic (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 11:48:06 PM EST
    this evening, at least on the Greta Van Susteren show, about being accused of not being a legitimate news organization.  Talk about calling the wahhhmbulance.  Sheesh.  Every segment on whatever topic quickly turned to more crying and moaning and whining.  The really funny thing being it was all Republicans or conservatives, thus amply demonstrating the accuracy of the White House's point.

    Then the O'Reilly rerun came on, and there was more raging and rending of garments, this time with that well-known "objective journalist" Brit Hume.  I had the sound off by then, but looked over to see film of Hitler being run.  I did not, for the record, see anything that would indicate Mr. Objective Hume was in the least perturbed by the apparent comparison of the Obama White House's criticism of Fox News to Hitler.

    The Kool-Aid these people drink is a much more powerful kind than even the Obama people cooked up during the campaign, simply awesome.

    Its funny- Conservaitves whine about the Lib (5.00 / 3) (#17)
    by Socraticsilence on Tue Oct 20, 2009 at 01:25:40 AM EST
    Media for the past 30 years- and its all good, A Democratic Administration does the same for a solid 3-4 weeks and all hell breaks loose.

    Parent
    These aren't the good old days. (none / 0) (#21)
    by Fabian on Tue Oct 20, 2009 at 02:44:50 AM EST
    Traditional media is losing out to the new media, so anything that diminishes their stature in the public eye is significant.  It used to be the Media had a monopoly because there was nowhere else to go.  Now there IS somewhere else to go and the Traditional Media has a lock on neither entertainment or journalism.  

    Parent
    IIRC (none / 0) (#22)
    by Left of the Left on Tue Oct 20, 2009 at 03:02:35 AM EST
    Foxs ratings are up 20% since this all began.

    God forbid we get distracted in fighting over the public option. Getting in a pissing match and trying to discredit an entire network, thats ok though.

    Let's hope someone decides putting a line in the sand over a PO, rather than over Fox's credibility, would be a better use of the airwaves.

    Parent

    That's just people (none / 0) (#24)
    by Fabian on Tue Oct 20, 2009 at 04:17:16 AM EST
    who still watch teevee.

    I wonder if the demographics show that television watchers are an aging demographic.  People speculated that racists and homophobes would "age out" of the population.  Suppose the same thing happens to television viewers?

    Parent

    true (none / 0) (#26)
    by Left of the Left on Tue Oct 20, 2009 at 06:00:45 AM EST
    but, and I could be totally off, I would say most people that get their news online, the majority still go to the big mainstream sites over blogs.

    Parent
    You're probably right (none / 0) (#28)
    by Fabian on Tue Oct 20, 2009 at 06:43:33 AM EST
    about choosing mainstream sites over smaller ones, but I think people still get their news from papers, TV, radio and the internet.  (Can't stand most mainstream sites - too much clutter.)

    Because TV doesn't fit my lifestyle, I use the radio and internet.  Oddly enough, I think radio will do just fine.  It's cheap, it doesn't hog bandwidth and you don't need special e-devices to access it.  Television is another story.

    Parent

    I feel the same way about the (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 20, 2009 at 07:18:58 AM EST
    mainstream sites.  They are full of clutter, almost always not enough detail about what I consider important topics for the general public to be well versed in.  It irritates me even.  But maybe you and I are strange?

    Parent
    Of course the ratings are up (none / 0) (#41)
    by Inspector Gadget on Tue Oct 20, 2009 at 10:05:27 AM EST
    Same thing happens in a blog war...watch the comment sections fill to capacity in record time when one of those takes place.

    Parent
    That's oil, folks. (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by lentinel on Tue Oct 20, 2009 at 02:34:31 AM EST
    "The Interior Department has given Shell approval to drill oil exploration wells in two leaseholds in the Beaufort Sea, which could lead to the first drilling in more than a decade in this area off the north coast of Alaska.

    Shell Alaska general manager Pete Slaiby hailed the decision as "another positive step towards the ultimate goal of drilling in 2010."

    Sure glad that we didn't elect McCain and that wacky Palin and those "drill, baby, drill" republicans. Whew!

    Joshua wants to be a Zombie for halloween (5.00 / 2) (#27)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 20, 2009 at 06:26:47 AM EST
    Other than rotting clothing, dirty dusty hair (got the spray for hair), and green flesh (got the makeup), I was trying to come with some more ideas for his costume.  I hit the Google for zombie costume and Jesus costumes comes up.  It's very funny, but probably not a good idea in the bible belt.

    how about (none / 0) (#50)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Oct 20, 2009 at 10:48:29 AM EST
    or (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by lilburro on Tue Oct 20, 2009 at 10:50:46 AM EST
    Raptor Jesus

    (the likeness of which my brother tattooed to his calf.  Don't ask me...)

    Parent

    and really (none / 0) (#52)
    by lilburro on Tue Oct 20, 2009 at 10:51:27 AM EST
    what better to tattoo to your calf than something described as "a meme."

    Parent
    I like your brother (none / 0) (#53)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Oct 20, 2009 at 10:55:58 AM EST
    already.  both mine would try to cut the leg off if they saw such an abomination.

    Parent
    My parents (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by lilburro on Tue Oct 20, 2009 at 11:01:13 AM EST
    were remarkably okay with it.  I don't really care either...what it is is the crucified Raptor Jesus as a skeleton.  It is pretty ridiculous looking but hey, it was only 10 bucks.

    Parent
    where the wild things are (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Oct 20, 2009 at 08:21:07 AM EST
    anyone see this?
    it was not at all what I expected.  although I am not sure what I expected.

    yes (none / 0) (#32)
    by CST on Tue Oct 20, 2009 at 08:45:16 AM EST
    agree, on both counts.

    I actually heard the original movie was much darker and the studio made them change it to make it more "kid friendly".

    I loved this book as a kid, but it certainly isn't doesn't fit the traditional "kid's movie" formula.

    Parent

    maded me feel weird (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Oct 20, 2009 at 08:49:54 AM EST
    sad depressing.  and well.  sad.

    I dont have much attachment to the book but I too was expecting more of a kids movie.  some of those relationships were extremely complex.

    having said that, it looks amazing.  just a weird movie.  although I expected weird when I saw who was directing it.  I like his films.  a lot.  and I cant say I dont like this one.  its just not what I expected.

    not really a kids movie.  I guess it was made for the boomers who grew up with the book

    Parent

    It's a hard book (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by CST on Tue Oct 20, 2009 at 09:12:35 AM EST
    to turn into a movie.  The plot doesn't fit much of a formula at all.  I liked the movie, but you're right, it is sad, and not necessarily easy to watch.

    I have to say, the theater was pretty full, but I didn't see too many kids.  Mostly the young adult crowd.  I was somewhat surprised by how many people I know have either seen it or want to see it - just about everyone.

    Parent

    the "book" (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Oct 20, 2009 at 09:22:50 AM EST
    is 9 sentences

    Parent
    10 :) (none / 0) (#37)
    by CST on Tue Oct 20, 2009 at 09:41:09 AM EST
    but it's not exactly safe.  And I'm pretty sure the Wild Things try to eat him at the end.  Plus it's based on a fantasy.  Which can be a hard thing to put in a plot without sneding someone into a coma like the wizard of oz.

    Parent
    It does actually. (none / 0) (#40)
    by Fabian on Tue Oct 20, 2009 at 09:58:14 AM EST
    Kid is having tough time coping.
    Kid imagines a world more to his liking, where he can be king.
    Kid realizes that a world populated by his own creatures, that do everything he wants to is fun to visit, but not to live there.
    Kid goes back to home/reality.

    There's an alternate version by Terry Pratchett, where the Queen of the Fairies kidnaps children and gives them exactly what they want.  In this case, a three year old gets candy, lots of candy and nothing but candy.  (He gets rescued - by his older sister, who also rescues the Baron's teenage son who is also stuck in Faerie.  When they get back, everyone assumes the older boy was the one who was the hero because, well, because that's the way stories work.)

    Parent

    dont know about making (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Oct 20, 2009 at 08:51:23 AM EST
    it more kid friendly but one thing I do know is that the completed the movie with the characters looking like muppets and someone said their mouths have to move in a realistic way so they went back and tracked cg faces to them.
    I know someone who worked on that part.


    Parent
    I read somewhere Maurice Sendak (none / 0) (#38)
    by oculus on Tue Oct 20, 2009 at 09:55:24 AM EST
    likes the movie.  Of course he is probably making lots of money off it.

    Parent
    site policy (none / 0) (#3)
    by pitachips on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 09:31:17 PM EST
    why is it a few of my comments for some reason end up deleted? i've never been a troll or done/said anything that could be considered as such. thanks

    maybe it was your lanaguage? (none / 0) (#12)
    by Jeralyn on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 10:34:29 PM EST
    Trolling is not the  only comment rule. Have you read them? No profanity, name-calling or personal attacks. I can't specifically remember deleting any of your ocmments, but that would be the main reason.

    Parent
    I'm concerned that the Presidents... (none / 0) (#4)
    by NealB on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 09:34:31 PM EST
    ...on the Senate Finance Committee have usurped the power of the actual President of the United States. I can't remember his name any more, because all we hear about are what Presidents Baucus, Carper, Lincoln, Nelson, Conrad, and supreme President Snowe have decided in what's-his-name's stead. What happened to that other guy? My agenda? We need figure out why he's letting everyone else be President when he was the one got elected President.

    This is someone who's never, (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by Anne on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 09:45:03 PM EST
    in my opinion, truly worked his butt off for anything that did not directly benefit him, so leaving the really hard work to others is just how it's always worked for him.

    And because it has worked, he probably doesn't see much reason to treat the presidency any different.  The work stuff is kinda boring, too, ya know?

    Besides, if you spend too much time in the trenches, when would you get to do all the really fun stuff presidents get to do?

    Parent

    all the man's presidents,,,,, (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by mikeel on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 09:56:02 PM EST
    When will Obama step up to the plate?  He's continuing letting Congress make the sausage--it worked well in the summer didn't it?

    Parent
    Baucus on less pure public option (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by MO Blue on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 10:46:10 PM EST
    "This issue is alive and we are looking at it to see what makes the most sense," the senator declared on a conference call with reporters. "The major overall goal here though is to get health care reform that passes the Senate, gets 60 votes, and I just don't know if there is 60 votes for the most pure kinds of the public option. There may be 60 votes for the less pure kinds."

    The less pure kinds, Baucus explained, were co-ops, a public plan triggered by economic conditions and an insurance structure that allowed states to opt in or out of a public option. He seemed to find the last option the most intriguing. link

    Next up, watch the Senate take an outhouse and magically turn it into a public option.

     

    Parent

    A pure public option? (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 10:51:28 PM EST
    Bawhahahahah...a pure public option would be single payer wouldn't it?  That's my definition and I'm sticking to it!  Pure Public Option.....what b.s.ing jargon is he going to pull out of his who-ha next?

    Parent
    Obama will (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by lentinel on Tue Oct 20, 2009 at 02:39:21 AM EST
    step up to the plate when his manager tells him to.

    Parent
    Let someone else do it (5.00 / 2) (#7)
    by MO Blue on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 09:56:03 PM EST
    Last week, at a meeting between Senate health care principals and Obama administration officials, the White House basically told Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid it would be leaving most of the big legislative decisions on reform to him. This week, Reid is faced with an onslaught from pressure groups, including labor and the grassroots, demanding that he include the public option in the health care bill he brings to the floor. TPM

    Gives the "Not Me" the ability to avoid any responsibility for the outcome.

    Parent

    Ahhh (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 10:08:45 PM EST
    You mean President BauCarLinNelConrOwe?

    Why are they president? Because together they have a nice name?

    Parent

    Atheist ads to appear in NYC subway (none / 0) (#10)
    by nycstray on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 10:23:07 PM EST
    Associated Press

    Ads promoting atheism will be going up in New York City subway stations.

    The month long ad campaign begins next Monday in a dozen Manhattan stations.

    It features the slogan, "A Million New Yorkers Are Good Without God. Are You?"



    Link

    And to make things even more festive around here, the Empire State Bldg is lit tonight in honor of the Grateful Dead. Quite colorful :)

    re: The Empire State Building (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by Fabian on Tue Oct 20, 2009 at 02:40:35 AM EST
    Those have to be programmable lighting instruments.  Filters probably, although they might have the kind of LED lumens to do the trick.

    In related news - my husband approves of the LED under cabinet lights I installed.  So do I.  5.5 measly watts and the lumens right where I want them.  Each unit is the size of two half dollars and only half an inch thick.  Very tidy.

    Parent

    I used to work on the 72nd floor (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by nycstray on Tue Oct 20, 2009 at 03:20:21 AM EST
    I'm not sure how they are doing the lights anymore. They are currently greening the whole building, so I'm sure there's been some changes. It was very pretty whatever they did. Looked different than their usual multi-color displays.

    Good to know about the lights you installed. I may have to consider them for a couple of my work areas. Would be nice to have better lights in my sewing area etc :)

    Parent

    Who is Jay Cutler (none / 0) (#11)
    by CoralGables on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 10:32:30 PM EST
    Kyle Orton and the Denver Jesters hosiery is starting to grow on me.

    Don't worry. (none / 0) (#25)
    by lentinel on Tue Oct 20, 2009 at 05:31:17 AM EST
    People concerned that the lack of a legitimate government in Afghanistan might cause our own government to question the "mission" can breathe a sigh of relief.

    "Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates said Tuesday that prolonged challenges to the political legitimacy of the government in Afghanistan should not halt the administration's efforts to decide on a new strategy nor would it slow allied military operations there.

    "We are not going to just sit on our hands waiting for the outcome of this election and for the emergence of a government in Kabul," Mr. Gates said.

    Who needs those pesky Afghanis anyway?
    What the hell do they know about Afghanistan?
    We know what's good for them and they better keep out of our way if they know what's good for them.

    The man made global warming hoax (none / 0) (#29)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Oct 20, 2009 at 07:15:25 AM EST
    has its very own hoaxers...

    In a dramatic shift, the Chamber of Commerce announced Monday that it is throwing its support behind climate change legislation making its way through the U.S. Senate.


    Only it didn't.

    An email press release announcing the change is a hoax, say Chamber officials.

    Several media organizations fell for it.

    snip

    The Yes Men, a left-leaning activist group that often impersonates officials from organizations they oppose, took responsibility for the hoax.

    Politico Link

    Anyone else (none / 0) (#43)
    by CST on Tue Oct 20, 2009 at 10:16:39 AM EST
    watch the snow game blowout against the Titans?  It was highly encouraging to see Tom Brady hit 45 yard bombs in that weather.  And they were able to run the ball too.

    What an embarrasment for Tennessee though, -7 passing yards.

    In related news, what the hell is it doing snowing in mid October like that????  I got hailed on on Sunday.  Not cool.  This winter is gonna be rough.

    I saw the highlights.... (none / 0) (#46)
    by kdog on Tue Oct 20, 2009 at 10:33:25 AM EST
    why the hell was Golden-Boy Tom in the game for the start of the 3rd?  The football gods will not look kindly on running up the score against a class-act like Jeff Fisher.  Shame Belicheck...Shame!

    But you're back on top of the east...Gang Green came down with gangreene...the San-chise has a new nickname 'round here..."Dirty" Sanchez:(  What a debacle.

    Parent

    Wow (none / 0) (#48)
    by CST on Tue Oct 20, 2009 at 10:41:20 AM EST
    he started the second half??? FOR SHAME.  Cmon, the game was only half over.  As for "running up the score" they were just practicing their offense.  They needed a game to get back in, when they felt they had completed that practice, then you take out Brady.

    Yes, we are back on top, where we belong.  Still looking forward to that second meeting? :)

    Parent

    C'mon yourself... (none / 0) (#56)
    by kdog on Tue Oct 20, 2009 at 10:59:03 AM EST
    the game was over halfway through the second quarter...who do you think you guys are, an NCAA football factory?...:)

    And of course I'm still looking forward to the rematch...if Ryan don't right the ship quick it will be our Super Bowl:)

    Parent

    I was just happy (none / 0) (#62)
    by CST on Tue Oct 20, 2009 at 11:15:40 AM EST
    to see them get into a groove. And I was glad they took him out early in the third quarter.  Not that the Titans would've been able to stand up enough to hit him hard.

    Don't fret, you could still get the wild card :)

    Parent

    They were groovin' allright... (none / 0) (#64)
    by kdog on Tue Oct 20, 2009 at 11:21:56 AM EST
    and it looks like the Titans have decided to mail this season in early...not a lick of fight in 'em.

    Parent
    I almost felt bad for them (none / 0) (#67)
    by CST on Tue Oct 20, 2009 at 11:27:20 AM EST
    And then I remembered someone is paying them a lot of money to be that bad.  Then I just felt bad for Tennessee.

    Parent
    And congrats.. (none / 0) (#49)
    by kdog on Tue Oct 20, 2009 at 10:42:26 AM EST
    to jondee and the Bills for s*cking that much less.  With all the ticky-tack roughing the passer penalties lately, I'm amazed a flag wasn't thrown for the mugging of Edwards.

    Parent
    Michael Steele (none / 0) (#45)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Oct 20, 2009 at 10:19:28 AM EST
    is a gift

    "Something that we believe in very firmly and basically what we should be saying is that there are rules that you need to get into the country, go [through] the right door, fill out the right form, have some apple pie, hum a few bars of the Star Spangled Banner and get to work," Steele said. "God bless you, and I think that that begins to set us on the right road to dealing with this issue."


    Do you suppose he has a speech writer? (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by oculus on Tue Oct 20, 2009 at 10:58:39 AM EST
    Roman Polanski: (none / 0) (#47)
    by oculus on Tue Oct 20, 2009 at 10:37:23 AM EST
    AP

    Was checking to see if you had (5.00 / 2) (#60)
    by MO Blue on Tue Oct 20, 2009 at 11:08:48 AM EST
    seen the latest. I see that you are up to date on the latest episode of the Polanski saga and I don't have to provide you with the info.

    Parent
    Have you noticed my restraint re (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by oculus on Tue Oct 20, 2009 at 11:12:26 AM EST
    editorializing?  

    Parent
    Im so proud of you (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Oct 20, 2009 at 11:22:16 AM EST
    it does seem that the worm is turning for Roman.
    I think its possible he will end up wishing he had dealt with this back in the day.

    Parent
    Yes, I did (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by MO Blue on Tue Oct 20, 2009 at 11:31:01 AM EST
    I've noticed the restraint too (none / 0) (#70)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Oct 20, 2009 at 06:55:27 PM EST
    :)

    Parent
    Trying. If I fall off the wagon I will refrain (none / 0) (#71)
    by oculus on Tue Oct 20, 2009 at 07:37:56 PM EST
    from commenting on criminal posts.

    Parent
    the next time (none / 0) (#54)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Oct 20, 2009 at 10:58:33 AM EST
    Republicans start whining about gay marriage I think we should start talking about Republican Marriage:

    The Republican Marriage might not be the most gruesome death on this list, but it is certainly one of the most interesting. Originating in France, this form of execution was common in Revolutionary France. It involved tying together two naked people, a male and female usually of a similar age, and drowning them. In some cases, usually where water wasn't available, the couple would be run through with a sword.


    You are on a roll todayl (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by oculus on Tue Oct 20, 2009 at 10:59:32 AM EST
    "9 sentences."

    Parent
    10 (5.00 / 2) (#59)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Oct 20, 2009 at 11:07:26 AM EST
    Today's Glenn Greenwald got me thinking. (none / 0) (#63)
    by oculus on Tue Oct 20, 2009 at 11:16:06 AM EST
    What does he propose as the alternative, if any, to U.S. military occupation of ME countries?  Has he said?  Does give one pause that other countries which have also been the target of terrorism do not devote the lives and resources we do to these occupations.

    Sure sounds like... (none / 0) (#66)
    by kdog on Tue Oct 20, 2009 at 11:23:01 AM EST
    Steelers kicker Jeff reed was subjected to a bullsh*t arrest when he tried to help a teammate in a pinch.  Link