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Dick's Drinking Liberally Hunting Day

By Jeralyn, Section Dick Cheney
Posted on Wed Feb 15, 2006 at 08:22:48 PM EST
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Digby finds a chink in the story.

DUI cases. The stories are always the same. How many times have cops heard "I only had one beer" when pulling someone over. And now the latest from Cheney pal Katherine Armstrong: He was so distraught after the accident that he made a drink as soon as he got back to the ranch.

I was fine with the beer at lunch. It's true, that would not make him enebriated. It was a few hours before the shooting. But the drink back at the ranch could mean he wanted an explanation for any alcohol in his system in case he did have to take breath or blood test Saturday night -- in case the investigators weren't as sympatico to Katherine Armstrong, the former Bush-appointed head of Texas Wildlife, or the Secret Service, as he hoped they would be.

As Digby says:

[Cheney's story is] not exactly convincing when the secret service "made an appointment" with the sheriff's office for the next day and ran off the deputy who showed up to interview Cheney at the ranch.

Not to mention, the incident report states alcohol was not involved.

Jane at Firedoglake:

Boozehound Cheney was drinking all day. He went hunting without a license and shot an old man in the face. Wouldn't talk to Johnny Law until he sobered up. Got the sheriff and the Texas Parks and Wildlife folks to cover for him, hid from the public for four days then finally ran to the warm embrace of Fox News. Even Jack Cafferty says that's kinda like Bonnie interviewing Clyde.

Alan Dershowitz:

A simple cost/benefit analysis suggests that he (or those advising him) must have believed that there was more to be gained than lost by a 14 hour delay that would eventually be made public. It is likely, therefore, that something happened during that 14 hour period which was worth the negative costs of the delay.

What is the most likely thing to happen during a 14 hour delay that is worth the negative publicity? One possibility is that it takes approximately that period of time for alcohol to dissipate in the body and no longer be subject to accurate testing. It is fairly common for people involved in alcohol-related accidents to delay reporting them until the alcohol has left the body. There is no hard evidence that this is what happened here, but we are entitled to a better explanation.

And why won't the hospital release the results of Whittington's blood alcohol?

We should be told whether Vice President Cheney's victim had alcohol in his system when he was taken to the hospital. Was there any alcohol at or near the hunting area? Were any in the hunting party carrying flasks (which is apparently common among hunters)? What was Cheney doing just before he went hunting? Did anyone in the hunting party have a drink? We do know that Cheney had two drunk driving convictions when he was in his early 20s, but he has apparently been clean since then.

From Attytood:

....there's a chance that even one beer would be bad for a man with
Cheney's health history. Two of the most common types of treatments for
heart-attack patients, ACE inhibitors and beta blockers, can cause
dizziness, drowsiness, blurred vision and impaired judgment in a patient
that also drinks alcohol.

Meanwhile, Arianna is onto the Karl Rove-Karen Johnson-Katharine Armstrong angle.

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    Dick's Drinking Liberally Hunting Day | 40 comments (40 topical)
    Re: Dick's Drinking Liberally Hunting Day (none / 0) (#1)
    by bad Jim on Thu Feb 16, 2006 at 01:21:27 AM EST
    I hate to be a wet blanket, but we really don't know enough about Cheney's lifestyle to conjecture about his drinking habits. For all we know, his undisclosed secure location is in a cave in Pakistan's Northwestern Frontier Province, where he swaps tips about housekeeping and world domination with his neighbor Osama bin Laden. A more parsimonious explanation is that he simply didn't want to deal with the cops, and, being the Vice President, he didn't have to. This is completely consistent with both his personal and professional conduct from the beginning of the administration. As long as he's in office, he's accountable for nothing.

    Re: Dick's Drinking Liberally Hunting Day (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Feb 16, 2006 at 05:03:05 AM EST
    Several years ago the State Police in northern Wisconsin went to the trouble of asking "How many beers is that?" when persosn stopped for driving erratically told them they had had just a couple of beers. The answers nearly all fell in the range of 6 to 8 beers. I doubt if Texas is any different.

    Re: Dick's Drinking Liberally Hunting Day (none / 0) (#3)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Feb 16, 2006 at 05:18:56 AM EST
    From the post:
    But the drink back at the ranch could mean he wanted an explanation for any alcohol in his system
    And it could mean he just wanted a drink.

    Re: Dick's Drinking Liberally Hunting Day (none / 0) (#4)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Feb 16, 2006 at 05:30:22 AM EST
    oops on the post putton Again from the post:
    We should be told whether Vice President Cheney's victim had alcohol in his system when he was taken to the hospital.
    Why? Why should a private citizen have his privacy rights viotaed to satisfy the curiousity of political opponents of Cheney? I mean, leaving aside the fact that even if Mr. Whitington was drunk, and we have no reason to think he had any alcohol at all, it would prove absolutely nothing at all in regards to Cheney. Because that is exactly why they want to know, to further a theory that the VP was drinking heavily. No lectures folks, just a comment that you are making the Repubs life easier.

    Re: Dick's Drinking Liberally Hunting Day (none / 0) (#5)
    by Molly Bloom on Thu Feb 16, 2006 at 05:49:12 AM EST
    Cheney has a history of making bad decisions. Just to hit some of the highlights. 1. 2 DUI's 2. Advising Ford to dump Rockefeller (losing NY electoral votes) 3. The Haliburton merger with Dresser Industries w/o doing any due diligence on Dresser's asbestos liability 4. Iraq I doubt it was "the VP didn't want to deal with the deputies". Even Cheney would know he had to talk to them sooner or later. Why not get it over with? Unless, you had something to hide. Based upon Dick's past history of bad decisions and reckless behavior, drinking while hunting is not out of the question. As for the hospital not releasing a statment on the victim's blood alcohol level, wouldn't that be agianst medical ethics (such as they are) and privacy laws? Cheney may have a history of bad decision making, but I doubt the hospital does.

    Re: Dick's Drinking Liberally Hunting Day (none / 0) (#6)
    by Aaron on Thu Feb 16, 2006 at 06:42:07 AM EST
    Repost to BR I'll tell you what I would do if I accidentally shot my friend, I would be concerned enough to go to the hospital with them to make sure they were going to be all right. And I would do that for anyone, friend, acquaintance or stranger, hell I'd do that for a dog, cat or any animal. But apparently this was not Cheney's actual friend as was initially reported, just an acquaintance. I found myself wondering if Dickey has any real friends to talk to, poor guy. Even though I despise the man and everything he stands for I was initially moved to feel some sympathy for the vice president, because that's a difficult thing to deal with... but definitely nowhere near as difficult as what the person who got shot is going through. And now I hear that Instead of going to the hospital Mr. Cheney decided to go to dinner with his remaining unwounded "friends". Where the hell is your compassion Mr. vice President? I wonder, did you eat a hearty meal that night? Now we know why they call him Dick. And this "accident" didn't get reported to the press till something like 20 hours after the fact, and that was to a local newspaper, not to White House press corps or any national news service. What a farcical minstrel show the Bush administration is.

    Re: Dick's Drinking Liberally Hunting Day (none / 0) (#7)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Feb 16, 2006 at 07:36:14 AM EST
    Aaron - I don't know if you have ever been involved with an emergancy situation, but: The medical folks will not let you in the ambulance. It is full of medical stuff they will be using and they flat don't want you in the way. They won't let you in the ER cubicle, not even if you are family if the situation is truly serious. Few non-medical types react well to seeing many of the medical procedures. And the medical folks don't need the distractions of people crying and moaning and just being in the way. What the medical people want is you out of the way. In the case of the VP, they actually wouldn't want him around because all of the additional security, people, press etc., would be a problem for other ER operations themselves. i.e. Auto wreck victims, etc. Aaron, you are just struggling to complain about Cheney. He did what he should have done. Get the medical professonals involved and then get out of the way.

    Re: Dick's Drinking Liberally Hunting Day (none / 0) (#8)
    by Peaches on Thu Feb 16, 2006 at 08:14:04 AM EST
    He did what he should have done. Get the medical professonals involved and then get out of the way.
    And then go have a drink. Which is exactly what I would have done, btw, but that's beside the point. ;)

    Re: Dick's Drinking Liberally Hunting Day (none / 0) (#9)
    by Jlvngstn on Thu Feb 16, 2006 at 09:33:18 AM EST
    Hey, liberal defense attorneys cannot complain about the slowness in reporting. I am relatively certain in one of his 3 dui's, someone told him along the way: If you ever hit anything run and hide for 24 hours and have a drink saying that you had a couple long after the wreck.

    Re: Dick's Drinking Liberally Hunting Day (none / 0) (#10)
    by Che's Lounge on Thu Feb 16, 2006 at 09:55:05 AM EST
    He doesn't seem too upset that he's responsible for an uncountable number of innocent Iraqi corpses. It's true. This is nothing compared to his REAL crimes. Wanna see the pictures? I didn't think so.

    Re: Dick's Drinking Liberally Hunting Day (none / 0) (#11)
    by ltgesq on Thu Feb 16, 2006 at 10:05:23 AM EST
    Nice to know the vice president retreats into the bottle during a crisis. Bravo. First it was no drinking, then it was hunters never drinking, then its "the vp had a coctail later", now its one beer at lunch, no hunting for the whole of the best part of the day, and then a cocktail after you blast Harry. And you wonder why we are still curious? I have been reading this site for some time, and am always entertained by how much PPJ is concerned about the future of the Democratic party. Thanks buddy. Next time one of your drunken leaders blasts someone in the face at short range, we'll have the decency to let it slide. I wonder how long we'll have to wait.

    Re: Dick's Drinking Liberally Hunting Day (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Feb 16, 2006 at 10:41:44 AM EST
    About Those Quails-Funny Story Funny story about quails. The ancient Hebrews regarded the Old World bird as slow in flight because of its weight, which goes a long way in explaining how the wind could push hundreds of quails out of the sky to cause a massive pile-up on the ground three feet high during the wilderness years. While the bird's easy pickings impress upon each new age of bird-brained churchgoers the providential might of their god, its bottom-heaviness is not helping at all the vice president. Apparently he is at a loss to explain why he couldn't bag a lumbering quail, shooting instead an un"whitting" hunter. This must be why he tried to covey-up yet another example of misdirected fire, which has come to be known as White House stamp and trade. About those quails. Funny story. So the Hebrew people are in Egypt, and they're eating well, and they're flourishing, evidently, because they outnumber the Egyptians. No wait, they are fewer in number than the Egyptians, and not only the Egyptians, but all people. Well, which is it? Either they outnumber the Egyptians, or the Egyptians outnumber them. (Consider that the different accounts add humor to the hyperbolic claims of the god, the express purpose of such discrepancies being to undermine his credibility.) At any rate Moses will save the Hebrew people some time after he looks both ways for witnesses, fires off a deadly blow to an Egyptian, and hides the un"whitting" man in the sand. When word gets out that Moses had tried to bury the story, he does what all cowardly leaders do-he runs for cover. And like all men whose dirty deeds earn them power and influence within the Bush administration, Moses is promoted by the god of the Jews and Christians to an unrivaled position of leadership. Moses, you should know, would not return to Egypt until there was no chance he would be called to answer for his crime, evidently the alcohol in his body having had sufficient time to dissipate. About those quails. Funny story. So the god says to the man who took a shot at someone, the man who tried to bury the story of his crime, the man who fled town when the story broke, the same man who returned only after he knew he wouldn't have suffer any consequences of a criminal nature, the god says to him, "You shall lead my people." And so he does. He leads them into the wilderness where they are now caught between the proverbial rock and hard place. If the people will obey all the god's commands he will do them the favor of not inflicting upon them the diseases that he suffered upon the Egyptians. He is their healer, after all, for the sheer fact of his keeping from them the afflictions he could very well levy against them should they provoke him. Needless to say, the people are not wild about his brand of government. They begin to grumble about not having enough food to eat, fearing he has brought them into the desert to kill them off with hunger. The god promises them food to eat, which they are to consume the day of gathering or the "bread from heaven" will turn into worms. The people are happy they have this "small round thing, as small as the hoar frost on the ground" to eat to their full. They are forbidden to gather this "bread from heaven" on Sabbath. They are allowed, however, to gather twice as much the day before to lay up a provision for the day of rest, but because it will turn to worms if left overnight, they must boil and bake what they will not eat on the day of gathering. When the people see this "small round thing, as small as the hoar frost on the ground" that appears with dew, they say to one another, "It is manna," because they don't know what it is. "Manna" translates in Hebrew as "whatness" because of the question about its composition. Now about those quails. Funny story. The people begin to complain again. God gets mad at them because he doesn't like to be questioned. He believes that his show of might back in Egypt should have been enough for them to know the terrible things of which he is capable. To teach them the lesson that they are not to inquire into his actions, he incinerates a good number of the dissidents. You wouldn't think the people, knowing how temperamental the god is, would bellyache about how they don't feel so good for having to eat manna day in and day out, but they do. They complain the manna they're eating is causing them to waste away. Now the god is really mad. 'Since the people want meat to eat I will give them meat-meat enough until it comes out of their nostrils, so sick they will be of eating it.' That's how the god is. Spiteful dickens. So the quails fall and the people gather them all and tear into them ravenously. You've got to wonder about so many quails falling at one time, especially when the people die from a great plague for eating them. You've got to figure that the Asian bird flu of today must be only a mild strain of the virus that killed off so many of the Hebrew people back in god's day. Now about that manna. Funny story. As you know, the Hebrew people are shepherds of sheep. Jacob's beloved wife Rachel's name even means "ewe." In The Sheep Book by Ron Parker you will learn that smart shepherds keep their sheep "out of the pastures in the mornings when the dew is on the grass" because the larvae of roundworms that lactating ewes excrete are drawn to the moisture. Remember the "small round thing, as small as the hoar frost on the ground" that miraculously appeared with the dew? Remember how the people didn't know what it was? Remember how it turned to worms if they didn't eat it the same day they gathered it? Remember how the people felt all dried up and wasted away for eating it? The god, it turns out, fed them "manna," or "whatness" to humble them. That's right. Oocysts. The bread from heaven was the larvae of roundworms. And so the next time your vice-president aims for a quail and misses and you find holes in his story enough to breed the worm of scandal, pay close attention. Know what the story is that you're being fed, or you may have the sheep's wool pulled over your eyes. It has happened before. http://www.godisajoke.com/

    Re: Dick's Drinking Liberally Hunting Day (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Feb 16, 2006 at 11:39:47 AM EST
    I'm not okay with Cheney having a beer with lunch. First, you never drink before handling guns. Basic firearm safety. Not one drink. Second, he's gotta be on a list of medications almost as long as his list of lies. You especially never drink and pick up a gun when you're a walking pharmacological exhibit in the first place.

    Re: Dick's Drinking Liberally Hunting Day (none / 0) (#14)
    by kdog on Thu Feb 16, 2006 at 11:44:18 AM EST
    JL...good point. I'd tell a friend the same thing...lay low till your blood clears up. But, as Che pointed out, we can't get Cheney for his real crimes, so this will have to do. Anything that hurts Cheney's political capital is good for the future of America.

    Re: Dick's Drinking Liberally Hunting Day (none / 0) (#15)
    by kdog on Thu Feb 16, 2006 at 11:52:19 AM EST
    Though quite unfortunate for his hunting buddy...the poor slob. Seems like a halfway decent Repub too, opposing the Texas policy of executing the mentally retarded for example, and opposing the use of prisoners to train bloodhounds. Seems like he will recover though...good news.

    Re: Dick's Drinking Liberally Hunting Day (none / 0) (#16)
    by KD on Thu Feb 16, 2006 at 11:52:45 AM EST
    JimakaPPJ, Now you're claiming the shooting situation was really serious right from the start. I thought we were told the guy was laughing and joking around until the birdshot migrated to his heart. The story is changing, isn't it?

    Re: Dick's Drinking Liberally Hunting Day (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Feb 16, 2006 at 01:10:17 PM EST
    Okay, from Cheney's FOX interview this is my understanding of how Republican rich guys go quail hunting. The first thing they do is get their underlings to figure out how to acquire the latest and greatest hunting attire (preferably orange), weapons, and appropriate licenses. Then they head to a distant location (preferably one owned by a Republican). Then they hire some ranch hands to drive around the property and scout out covies of quail, so the rich Republicans can sit around the house and party. Once the ranch hands locate the quail they call the rich Republicans and tell them where the quail are. Then the rich Republicans drive their fancy trucks over to where the quail are. Then the rich guys let their dogs loose to go round the quail up. Then the rich guys pull out their guns and shoot and kill as many as they can. This is hunting? This is what makes a man a man? This is the reason we can't get any gun control in this country?

    Re: Dick's Drinking Liberally Hunting Day (none / 0) (#18)
    by Johnny on Thu Feb 16, 2006 at 03:46:00 PM EST
    This is hunting?
    This type of hunting is a perversion. It has nothing to do with the procurement of foodstuffs, nor the continution of any kind of deep seated spiritual connection with your food supply. In fact, it has no connection with any food supply. It has everything to do with kill-happy nutjobs who equate kill-count with tradition, who kill hundreds of animals every year simply because they have been told they can. Thrill-kills like this are a way to spend incredible amounts of money (and dickie was spending a LOT of taxpayer money to shoot his friend in the face), and give the impression that they are out there enjoying the common man's type of activity.

    Re: Dick's Drinking Liberally Hunting Day (none / 0) (#19)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Feb 16, 2006 at 05:12:57 PM EST
    gentlyweepingguitar writes:
    Then the rich guys let their dogs loose to go round the quail up.
    When you find out what breed of dogs can "round the quail up" let me know. We will have something that no one else has and will become "the rich guys" you write about. Which is my way of saying, it doesn't work like that. For old wore out rich men to hunt quail, the handlers let the dogs work an area, and when (more or less) convinced there are a covey of quails, they notify the hunters who drive over to the location, probably a hundred acres or so. They then let the dogs search further. At some point the dogs will go on point, and upon command, flush the covey. The hunters shoot when the birds are flushed. Sounds as if it would be easy to hit, but they aren't. Sometimes the birds will stay in the covey and will circle around and land again. Sometimes they will break apart, some going left, right, straight. Some will turn and come back by which will give the hunter a second shot. That apparently is what happened with Cheney. He turned and tried to shoot one. Unfortunately he didn't see Whittington. If you are young and poor you hunt the same way except you work your own dog and walk, or else drive your (probably)4WD pickup. If you don't have a dog then you just look for likely spots and try to "kick" the covery up. BTW - The quails in this instance were not farm/pen raised. I make the distinction because "farm/pen" raised birds, which are released the next day, are easy to shoot, much like "ducks in a barrel." I have never done it, not because of some philsophy, but because I can get safer excercise just walking. Many land owners will lease out acreage that has been let go "wild," and on which the birds grow in a natural envrionment. This was the situation with Cheney/Whittington except Whittington actually owned the land. Now you know.

    Re: Dick's Drinking Liberally Hunting Day (none / 0) (#20)
    by scarshapedstar on Thu Feb 16, 2006 at 05:20:02 PM EST
    He did what he should have done. Get the medical professonals involved and then get out of the way.
    Too bad his Secret Service detail didn't get out of the way when the police professionals showed up, eh?

    Re: Dick's Drinking Liberally Hunting Day (none / 0) (#21)
    by scarshapedstar on Thu Feb 16, 2006 at 05:27:04 PM EST
    Ooh, boy, I get to write my dissertion for the PPJ School Of Picking Out One Sentence Of A Huge Comment That You Disagree With And Completely Ignoring The Rest!
    This was the situation with Cheney/Whittington except Whittington actually owned the land.
    Ha! The land's owned by Armstrong! Liar, liar, pants on fire! I think this pretty well disproves whatever it was PPJ was saying.

    Re: Dick's Drinking Liberally Hunting Day (none / 0) (#22)
    by jimcee on Thu Feb 16, 2006 at 05:52:22 PM EST
    If shooting quail is anything like shooting partridge it is a tricky business. A partridge waits until you are right on top of it before it jumps, usually escaping in the process. It is funny how that natural selection thing comes up with odd survival schemes. As far as Cheney being drunk? Well that is pure speculation on the part of the 'black helicopter' brigades. If they want to make unprovable charges straight from the Carville/Begala talking point memos go ahead because it just makes you look like either a political sychophant or a speculating fool or both. Have fun frothing at the mouth.

    Re: Dick's Drinking Liberally Hunting Day (none / 0) (#23)
    by Sailor on Thu Feb 16, 2006 at 07:46:27 PM EST
    I think this pretty well disproves whatever it was PPJ was saying.
    What, are you new here!? ... ;-)
    It is funny how that natural selection thing comes up with odd survival schemes.
    Yeah, a large guy in orange behind the shooter catches ~200 pellets meant for a small non descript bird. He caught those pellets in his face, neck and chest and it's funny. And let's not forget that instead of dick following the man he shot to the hospital he opted to have a drink instead. He drank alcohol before the shooting, he drank alcohol after the shooting. Blood thinners, heart attack meds, and the first thing the Vice President of the United States of America thinks to do after shooting a man is have a drink?

    Re: Dick's Drinking Liberally Hunting Day (none / 0) (#24)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Feb 16, 2006 at 08:15:40 PM EST
    The media's collective yawn over the fact that Cheney had "one beer" before the incident demonstrates the double standard in this country with respect to marijuana and alcohol. I am not saying that Cheney's "one beer" was a contributing factor in the incident, but imagine the media's reaction if he had taken a couple of hits off a joint at lunch. I am not referring to the fact that this would have been illegal (and, of course, out of character); rather, I am suggesting that every media outlet in the country would have attributed the incident to the marijuana use, even though it would have been just as much to blame (or not to blame) as the "one beer."

    Re: Dick's Drinking Liberally Hunting Day (none / 0) (#25)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Feb 16, 2006 at 08:22:28 PM EST
    There's also the still unexplained question of the Texas PWD report: did the shooting occur at dusk, or in 'sunny' conditions as the report says? BTW, thequailhunter.com is a community blog, so register and post entries if you've got news or views about the incident.

    Re: Dick's Drinking Liberally Hunting Day (none / 0) (#26)
    by jimcee on Thu Feb 16, 2006 at 08:28:13 PM EST
    SAFERguy, Very good point.

    Re: Dick's Drinking Liberally Hunting Day (none / 0) (#27)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Feb 16, 2006 at 09:11:05 PM EST
    From PPJ: "Now you know." No I don't know, and no, I don't understand. See, I live in a big city, and the quail we get here are God's creatures. One of the most beautiful sights I've ever seen is a Mama quail with her babies close behind scurrying around looking for food. And if I look carefully enough, every time, I'll see the Daddy quail, up off the ground, a few feet up, on lookout, making sure his little family is safe. The last thing I would ever want to do would be to shoot a bunch of pellets at this precious little family. I much prefer to watch and appreciate their intrinsic beauty. It would break my heart to kill them. I'd feel the guilt for months! I prefer to go to the movies, or the ballet, or the symphony to get my kicks. But everytime I go, I'm afraid because some idiot with an illegal gun might kill me because I didn't give him the keys to my car quickly enough. And I don't understand why you guys in the country who get your kicks from the thrill of killing innocent little quail can't understand why guns are not okay within my city's limits.

    Re: Dick's Drinking Liberally Hunting Day (none / 0) (#28)
    by kdog on Fri Feb 17, 2006 at 06:28:36 AM EST
    imagine the media's reaction if he had taken a couple of hits off a joint at lunch
    If that were the case...no one would be talking about the poor slob who got shot. The headline in every paper in the world would simply be "Cheney smokes reefer".

    Re: Dick's Drinking Liberally Hunting Day (none / 0) (#29)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Feb 17, 2006 at 08:02:53 AM EST
    scar - Thanks for your vulgar correction. Can you make a point without attacking, etc. You wrote:
    Ha! The land's owned by Armstrong! Liar, liar, pants on fire! I think this pretty well disproves whatever it was PPJ was saying.
    Okay, so how does this change my point the land in question is not used for pen raised and release quail? Kind of desperate, eh? Now, this will be difficult, but try and refute that without vulgar remarks. sailor - Can you tell us what meds the VP is on that forbids the use of alcohol? No? I didn't think so. Does that mean you don't know what you are talking about? gentlyweepingguitar writes:
    No I don't know, and no, I don't understand. See, I live in a big city, and the quail we get here are God's creatures
    And so was the cow your hamburger comes from. I mean there is nothing sweeter than watching a young calf rub against its mother and then bend its head to suck its meal from her teats. BTW - You eat no meat? Fine. Otherwise...

    Re: Dick's Drinking Liberally Hunting Day (none / 0) (#30)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Feb 17, 2006 at 08:07:37 AM EST
    BigMedia - At dusk in rolling hills you will find that some areas are still in full sunshine, some are in shade. Cheney said Whittinton was in a low place between him and the sun. Sounds like Cheney was at the bottom of a hill looking back into the sun. Whittingon was above him. That doesn't absolve Cheney from shooting when he shouldn't, just explains what happened.

    Re: Dick's Drinking Liberally Hunting Day (none / 0) (#31)
    by Sailor on Fri Feb 17, 2006 at 09:00:14 AM EST
    sailor - Can you tell us what meds the VP is on that forbids the use of alcohol? No? I didn't think so.
    That strawman won't hunt. Anyone knows drugs, guns and alcohol don't mix, and I'm very surprised an allged hunter like yourself would advocate combining them. Considering his known conditions, I surmise he's taking: Medications for heart attack survivors: ACE inhibitor such as lisinopril (Zestril), or AR blocker anti-cholesterol "statin" such as atorvastatin (Lipitor) aspirin beta-blocker such as atenolol (Tenormin), metoprolol, or carvedilol (Coreg) fish oil capsules nitroglycerin prn For generalized atherosclerotic disease: pentoxifylline (Trental) sildenafil (Viagra) prn For left ventricular dysfunction: furosemide (Lasix) beta blocker as noted above (esp. carvedilol) ACE inhibitor/AR blocker as noted above digitalis (Digoxin) aldosterone blocker such as spironolactone or eplerenone (Inspra) For gout: allopurinol (Zyloprim) indomethacin (Indocin) prn Any Drs want to give an opinion?

    Re: Dick's Drinking Liberally Hunting Day (none / 0) (#32)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Feb 17, 2006 at 09:20:40 AM EST
    Thanks for your vulgar correction. Yes, let's see your true elitist colors here, PPJ. I guess you think that any correction of your ranting is vulgar, judging from at least one reaction to a past correction here Not like you talking about spanking peoples' butts, like here, eh? Oh, and I'm taking away your free speech right now, and I just wanted to warn you in advance.

    Re: Dick's Drinking Liberally Hunting Day (none / 0) (#33)
    by peacrevol on Fri Feb 17, 2006 at 09:23:11 AM EST
    Perhaps I'm a little slower than most people, but I dont really see a huge problem with not notifying the press or prez for 14 hours. I fail to see how this buys him time to sober up either. As long as he brought in medical professionals immediately, I'm satisfied. Of course, I dont know if that's the case, but nobody on this post is arguing that he didnt, so I assume you are all satisfied that he did. So when the guy who was shot arrives at the hospital, it is the job of the police to find out about the drinking situation. If I shot someone on a hunting trip, there is no doubt in my mind that the police would be on my butt like a dog on a quail. Hence I dont think he was lying in the weeds wating for the alcohol to leave his body. It just seems that we should focus less on the accident, the entire hunting trip, or the way he handling having just shot someone, and more on the guy's views. I mean argue against the war on terror that he supports. Argue against the war on drugs that he supports.

    Re: Dick's Drinking Liberally Hunting Day (none / 0) (#34)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Feb 17, 2006 at 09:54:26 AM EST
    I dont really see a huge problem with not notifying the press or prez for 14 hours. I think that the real problem people have was the fact that the SS didn't let any LEOs talk to Cheney until 14 hours later after the accident.

    Re: Dick's Drinking Liberally Hunting Day (none / 0) (#35)
    by Aaron on Fri Feb 17, 2006 at 11:31:37 AM EST
    Full transcript of Cheney interview Nobody does the milk toast interview better than Brit Hume. I know I could ask better questions than brit From the transcript "...I didn't see it at the time I shot, until after I'd fired. And the sun was directly behind him -- that affected the vision, too, I'm sure" (Dick Cheney). Aaron's follow up question -- Mr. vice president, in retrospect do you think it was a good idea to fire at a target going directly into the setting sun, where your visibility was impaired? As Alex mentioned, basic firearms safety. Before we let little Richard out to play with his guns again, I think he'd better take a refresher course. JimakaPPJ So if you shot your friend by accident, you wouldn't take the trouble to get in your own car and drive the hospital on your own and see how they were? Glad I'm not your friend.

    Re: Dick's Drinking Liberally Hunting Day (none / 0) (#36)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Feb 17, 2006 at 02:05:30 PM EST
    PPJ said: "BTW - You eat no meat? Fine. Otherwise..." My point isn't about the meat we eat, my point is about the weapons used to kill the animals to get the meat.

    Re: Dick's Drinking Liberally Hunting Day (none / 0) (#37)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Feb 17, 2006 at 07:59:20 PM EST
    sailor writes:
    I'm very surprised an allged hunter like yourself would advocate combining them.
    That is a total mischaracterization of my comments, but I AM NOT surprised that you try and do so. You write:
    Considering his known conditions, I surmise he's taking: Medications for heart attack survivors:
    Short version.
    I don't know but I guess.
    You write:
    Any Drs want to give an opinion?
    I would hope that any Doctor who wants to comment would insist on having an exact list of the drugs the VP is taking. That would include dosage and frequency. The same Drs would provide a detailed list of side effects anad what can trigger them. Dark Avenger - Yes, I think
    Liar, liar, pants on fire! I think this pretty well disproves whatever it was PPJ was saying.
    is vulgar in its presentation and in the fact the point I had made was correct. I wrote, and which you linked to above:
    Darkly - My apologies. I thought you liked butt spanking. Sorry.
    I was always told that a gentleman must accept an apology. Is it you can not? Or....? Aaron - Since I am not Vice President of the US, I would. But if I were, as I wrote before, I would not. The ER room in question would hate to see me because of all the problems my security would bring, and all the noise and confusion reporters, etc., would bring. BION, ER medical folks want to be left alone to do their job. And again, BION, that ER had other cases besides Mr. Whittington to deal with. gentlyweepingguitar - Killing is killing. Slaughter is slaughter. If you eat meat it is slaughtered. Mostly likely in a slaughter house were the noise and smell of blood terrifies the pigs, chickerns or cattle about to become meat. Either give up meat or quit complaining.

    Re: Dick's Drinking Liberally Hunting Day (none / 0) (#38)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Feb 17, 2006 at 08:32:07 PM EST
    From PPJ: "Killing is killing. Slaughter is slaughter. If you eat meat it is slaughtered. Mostly likely in a slaughter house were the noise and smell of blood terrifies the pigs, chickerns or cattle about to become meat. Either give up meat or quit complaining." Excuse me? Killing is killing? People who get a thrill from the power that comes from killing a living being is the same as killing for food? In a slaughterhouse they don't use 9mm handguns to do the killing.

    Re: Dick's Drinking Liberally Hunting Day (none / 0) (#39)
    by Sailor on Fri Feb 17, 2006 at 08:57:04 PM EST
    The vice president is on drugs, he did drink before and after the shooting and he did shoot a man in the face. Some folks insist on defending his actions. Why is that?

    Re: Dick's Drinking Liberally Hunting Day (none / 0) (#40)
    by squeaky on Wed Feb 22, 2006 at 07:45:18 PM EST
    Looks like there was "South Texas Hunt" lotsa drinking as usual. Secret service chime in:
    Secret Service agents guarding Vice President Dick Cheney when he shot Texas lawyer Harry Whittington on a hunting outing two weeks ago say Cheney was "clearly inebriated" at the time of the shooting. Agents observed several members of the hunting party, including the Vice President, consuming alcohol before and during the hunting expedition, the report notes, and Cheney exhibited "visible signs" of impairment, including slurred speech and erratic actions.
    link via robot wisdom

    Dick's Drinking Liberally Hunting Day | 40 comments (40 topical)